Trevor B
4:52 Tue Apr 18
Re: Ashley Fletcher
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Stats will never convince me that what I see with my eyes is incorrect.
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Alex V
4:50 Tue Apr 18
Re: Ashley Fletcher
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I totally agree that pass success rate alone is not enough of a measure of quality. In fact I'd argue it's quite a bad indicator on the whole. Depends on the opposition's tactics, the team's style of play, where on the pitch, direction of the passes and the amount, the match situation etc. As most stats are, it is a bit of evidence, to be used in conjunction with other evidence.
But these are not arguments against the use of stats. They're arguments against the bad use of stats, which is legion.
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Trevor B
4:45 Tue Apr 18
Re: Ashley Fletcher
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No stats, EYES are good for those things though.
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Side of Ham
4:44 Tue Apr 18
Re: Ashley Fletcher
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Is there stats for how many times a player is too lazy to run for a ball, or a player that just gets brushed aside with no tackle attempt made.
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Trevor B
4:43 Tue Apr 18
Re: Ashley Fletcher
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"Tends to lead to more accurate views."
Only if interpreted properly, which you very rarely do because you only cite stats to back up your stance. Pass success rate, for instance, without knowing the direction of those passes and the situation the player was in it's almost impossible to say whether that player had a good game and how much he contributed to the team performance as a whole.
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Alex V
4:40 Tue Apr 18
Re: Ashley Fletcher
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I just find that more evidence is useful. Tends to lead to more accurate views. Totally agree that watching a match is important - after all in any player like Fletcher's case the stats would only record the results of their performances, they wouldn't indicate the level of promise. We have to look at the player and think how they could be encouraged to improve, and what their prospects would be if they do, and whether they would suit the team.
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Eerie Descent
4:38 Tue Apr 18
Re: Ashley Fletcher
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V absolutely running the show, as per.
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Trevor B
4:36 Tue Apr 18
Re: Ashley Fletcher
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Maybe if you didn't rely on stats to form your opinions you might actually watch a game and enjoy it, and come out with a view that is actually all of your own.
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Tomshardware
4:36 Tue Apr 18
Re: Ashley Fletcher
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Lee Trundle 3:53 Tue Apr 18
Like Calleri you mean? hahaha, his one goal was going wide until the deflection, he's one of the worst forwards we've had and that's saying something.
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Alex V
4:23 Tue Apr 18
Re: Ashley Fletcher
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>>> Because I know by using my EYES that someone with a 100% passing success rate isn't suddenly the greatest playing in the PL, because my EYES tell me he only touched the ball 3 times.
But of course stats can do that too and more easily. And we generally can't remember how many touches every player on a pitch had.
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Alex V
4:20 Tue Apr 18
Re: Ashley Fletcher
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>>> Lakaku's passing STATS are absolutely dreadful according to that site.
Not significantly. Forwards generally have lower completion stats. Vardy, Carroll, Benteke are lower than Lukaku. And you can take those stats and apply them to Everton's approach which tends to favour using Lukaku as a physical outlet. I think Lukaku is a player you would rate according to his physical threat and goals, but not necessarily for a team looking to play a more possession-based approach.
In terms of Fletcher, I think the stats back up the observation from matches that this is a player who likes to link the play with balls to feet and isn't going to offer too much in the air.
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Trevor B
4:16 Tue Apr 18
Re: Ashley Fletcher
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*player
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Trevor B
4:16 Tue Apr 18
Re: Ashley Fletcher
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Because I know by using my EYES that someone with a 100% passing success rate isn't suddenly the greatest playing in the PL, because my EYES tell me he only touched the ball 3 times.
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Alex V
4:09 Tue Apr 18
Re: Ashley Fletcher
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>>> I find it far more fucking interesting to actually watch a game of football with my eyes, then interpreting what I see to decide if a player is having a good or bad game.
It can be interesting to gain an impression from watching a match, and then look at the actual figures. They can be quite counter-intuitive and revealing at times. Why not do both?
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Lee Trundle
4:06 Tue Apr 18
Re: Ashley Fletcher
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Lakaku's passing STATS are absolutely dreadful according to that site.
I bet Everton's fans can't wait to get rid.
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El Scorchio
4:03 Tue Apr 18
Re: Ashley Fletcher
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To be fair, I reckon most of Romario's stats were absolute gash apart from Goals scored.
He was quite decent.
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El Scorchio
4:02 Tue Apr 18
Re: Ashley Fletcher
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terry-h 2:26
If that's true, then it's a shrewd gamble.
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Trevor B
3:57 Tue Apr 18
Re: Ashley Fletcher
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I find it far more fucking interesting to actually watch a game of football with my eyes, then interpreting what I see to decide if a player is having a good or bad game.
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Lee Trundle
3:53 Tue Apr 18
Re: Ashley Fletcher
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I prefer my strikers to have goals in them as opposed to having great EXTRAPOLATED passing stats.
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Alex V
3:46 Tue Apr 18
Re: Ashley Fletcher
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I'm happy to discuss anyone's figures on there or in any other measurement of their performances, Trundle. All the numbers are there to be interpreted.
I think I'd broadly say that the individual statistics are more interesting than the rating whoscored extrapolate from them. For example, Fletcher's actual pass completion is better than Ayew and Sakho, and miles better than Carroll and Calleri.
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Lee Trundle
3:41 Tue Apr 18
Re: Ashley Fletcher
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Cool, so we'll use the website to back up your point of view when you agree with it, and ignore it if you don't agree with it?
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